Models for WIPs? - discussion thread.

I'm a hoarder i admit this, but its for reason most of you all know. If i get one of my headaches im out for month to three at a time. and with that much time my muse is nearly dead for said character, i have to put them to the side and wait for it to come back. Biggest example would be Dom for me, it took me 4 years to actually make him. I have had models snatched from under me without a pm or anything. I list names for my models in case some does a wide around search. It's like people just don't care if you have the sheet nearly done or not. I mean honestly i worked all day on two newest guys to get them out for fear i would get sick again and come back after i got better and the model would be gone.

I dont know if its purposefully or not with the whole taking a model for a nearly done sheet. But i always always double check to be sure a model i want is not in use. I mean for me finding the right model is hard and once they have been taken the character for me is no longer and option to be made. Konny was the rare exception cos i have an awesome model search buddy who helped.

but my main concern is, we make this system and its ignored like the official model claims lists, it's happen to me before. I claim all my models there and had to change two because i see someone with the same face would didn't pm with a "hey i wanted to share the model this cool?" or i got the all "its not that serious its just a model" response when i say i would rather not share and i offer to help find a model for said person.

So what happens if this works for a month and then stops?

i agree with everything helena and rusty have said.

i like the idea of a system. like you said, carys, if you feel like you must have a certain model and are extremely paranoid about someone taking them, it allows you to breathe a bit. aaaand, it'd be nice to have a list of models being used for wips. however, most of us have multiple wips and being able to claim only one face doesn't really prevent a situation where two people want to use the same model. it just helps to lessen the amount of times it happens, which is definitely still a good thing.

but what if someone already has a claimed face on the list, and ends up with another wip with the same model as another person's (who also has a reserved model) wip. like rusty, i always use the search tool when i want to use a model but not everyone states the name of the model they want to use for a wip in their box. working it out via pm should do the trick, but not everyone's going to be willing to share or give up the model they're using that easily. :\

and what if someone claims a model for a wip but your character is already sorted and you want to use that model?

this is a good idea, too. but two months is kind of long, especially if someone claims the model you planned to use before you and you finish the sheet right away while they've barely touched theirs. for example, dev's sheet is almost done and if the system was put in place tonight and someone claimed her model before i could, and had just started their character's sheet, i wouldn't be happy.

of course, there should also be some proactiveness on the driver's side so if someone attempts to use a model that you have already almost completed a character for to be like

"Hey So & So

I saw you put in a claim for a wip in the claim's list. I currently am almost finished with a character using that model and plan on sorting them soon."

etc etc whatever you want to say

there should be some guidelines like "if a sheet is more than such and such way completed, that person has priority claim over that model" however, if it comes to the point where that same character sheet has been sitting in a sandbox for over a month unfinished, they shouldn't be able to keep that model forever and ever.

but, i know this hasn't been brought up and hopefully it wont be, but PLEASE don't let a model claim for adoptables ever happen.
if you aren't claiming a model for a character you plan on playing yourself, then that model is still up for grabs.
because i see model claims for relatives in sandboxes all the time and it makes me twitch hardcore.


i don't know how a system is going to work, but i think there should definitely be one...

I do not like the idea of a claim for models for sandbox characters. 
I also preferred when the Official Model List system more lax, and claiming a model didn't forbid others from using them as well.

I do not like the idea of a claim for models for sandbox characters. 
I also preferred when the Official Model List system more lax, and claiming a model didn't forbid others from using them as well.

But I feel if we don't have a claim then the so called "respect system" we have will still be abused.
I disagree, unless someone agrees to share models I don't think anyone else should use said model. There is a reason why everyone in this world looks different with maybe a few look-a-likes that are eerily similar, and I feel this should be the same on MH

I do not like the idea of a claim for models for sandbox characters. 
I also preferred when the Official Model List system more lax, and claiming a model didn't forbid others from using them as well.

For some the character is formed through the model themselves. In some cases I have picked a model because their look suits my character perfect. Case in hand, dawid here fits Jayden to a t. I mean I get people sometimes take forever to get sheets done, but i mean sometimes it happens that way. You go into too much detail (i do this too much) and your sheet ends up being 20 plus pages in word. And it's taken you forever to make. Work gets in the way, Real life happens.

Does that mean you should have to worry while your probably already stressing about the model you too time to search for (which can sometimes be a task for hours) being gone when stuff settles again?

I disagree with a more lax claims list. I mean if five people have the same face it would just be all blah. i personally dont lie to share a model i know suits my character. but it the model doesnt suit them 100% ask me and sure i'll share. I don't want to log on and be lie wtf they so just snatch my model. Sandbox or not i mean it would be nice for people to say something instead of someone being like "yo...uh your model you had for such and such this person is using" and im like...."....what stop lying let me check my pms) and boom none are there. I know i got a lot of head folk but jeez you know.

*whispers* stick figures.

it's true that a model can be stolen just as easily if someone quickly writes a sheet in one night and gets the char sorted. i'll admit that i hadn't even thought of that, haha. it's also true that a pm can solve the problem, yeah. but like i said, pms don't always get the job done, unfortunately. :\ not everyone is willing to give up a model, and not everyone is willing to share. the result would then have to be finding a new model, which i think is fine, but i doubt that everyone would be happy about that.

idk. i'm definitely not against the system as i think it could be really helpful, but i don't know if i'm completely for it either. i think if this is something that we go through with, toya's list is pretty ideal.

*whispers* stick figures.

this works too. xDD

My point is that all this heavy wrangling with models should be done really before the second driver gets too attached to someone so it's okay for them to have to look for someone else if the first driver doesn't want to give them up or share. The second driver really shouldn't be going into a Pm exchange with the mindset that they have to get what they want. Compromise is a thing on here. Even with sorted characters we run into model problems sometimes, and I do sort of believe in a first come first serve thing.

Again, I like toya's list, although I really want to add a requirement for some amount of completion on a sheet before claims can be made. I feel like that'll prevent some abuse of the system.

I like what Lauren said as well, but I'm a little skeptical that that's how it'll end up being used.

Adoptables' suggested models should never be taken as claims. They're just suggestions and no one should feel prohibited from using one of those models if those adoptables aren't about to be made.

I think that claims should be claims, honestly. What's the poit of even having a claim list if multiple people can use a model? 

whats the point of having an official model list for sorted characters only if we're going to have a wip model list anyway

this whole system is gonna be hella confusing for new members btw. just throwing that out there

I disagree. A lot of new members come from other sites where there is a reserve list of a model someone has made for a WIP. I feel like they would find this easier then being expected to search for a model when they are still confused on how MH works. I went to a few sites to take a screenshot of what I'm talking about. As you see in the first one, the reserves have a end date for the reserve list.

 

[edit]

i'm sorry. i just realized i'm being a little bit of a jerk haha
i think torr is rubbing off on me >>

i dont necessarily agree about everything with the wip model claim, but i'm going to bow out of this one with all due respect because i personally dont tend to keep lots of wips and i'd rather have those that do and who have had issues with the courtesy system/those who want a new system have more of an input without me being all snarky lols

<333

I really don't like the idea of a full-blown reserve system. I think that putting some kind of claim will really complicate things in the long-run and leave some kinds of bad feelings. I do think that if some model is being used for a WIP and their claim goes up, someone else who wants to use them will steal them the moment they can. Once we stop using respect as a basis for decisions, I believe that there will be little respect left. As someone who often has a ton of WIPs at once, and who takes a long time to sort characters, I I think that there will be a lot of pressure on drivers who take awhile on their WIPs to make them or lose them, in a way. I think this will ultimately end in a lot of ill-will between drivers, moreso than the current system.

I feel that as long as a character is actively working on a sheet, the model should be theirs. A picture in the sandbox shouldn't be enough, alone, to claim a model. I would agree with that. A person who's left a sheet up, untouched, for months is obviously not actively working on the character, and I don't think the model should be off-limits to others use because of the potential someone might make them in the future. However, if you can see that the driver is actively working on someone (a post edit within the past few months, even?), even if it's going slowly, I think that it's important to respect that they're intending on using them. The grey area comes after many months of inactivity. I don't think there's any grey area with a character who is currently being worked on. We should respect each other enough as drivers to know that it's not nice to use someone that someone else is using.

If we're going to implement a system, I feel like it's important that system focus more on those character sheets that are taking longer to finish, more than those who will be finished quickly. A one month or two month reserve will not fix a problem like that, because it often takes longer than that for drivers to finish a sheet, especially when you balance sheet writing with work/school/real life and posting the characters that you already have. I honestly don't think a reserve system of any kind would fix any of these problems, really. It would only give guidelines for when a model is "stealable." It actually offers nothing but a way for ill-will to be propagated. Also, do we really think that more bureaucracy will help solve anything?

However, I do think that it would be helpful for other drivers to have some sort list of models you're planning to use for WIPs. That could help some of the issues. I think that as soon as you have a model in mind, no matter how many models you have, you could submit yourself to that list. That way people have a place where they can easily see who people are using. Even Helena's suggestion that you include the model's name in your box could solve these issues. For the list, I imagine that it's a casual informatory place. Not a claim or a reserve. No time-limits. No character limits. It also doesn't necessarily stop other people from using those models. It just helps guide you to knowing where they are, so you can draw your own conclusions or send your own messages. I don't think that competition should be involved here, either. I just think it should be a place where you say "I want x for y" so people know about it.

No matter how long the sheet is taking, I don't think that a person should get cut out of using a model because of something like a reserve. Not as long as you're actively working on them. If you want to do a board wide "Sheet has not been edited in 3 months, so this model is now fine to use" rule, I could go for something like that... but I think that most of this is unnecessary. I think that the implementation of this system will just cause a lot of drama and panic and make people scramble to write sheets that are not as good just in an attempt to get the model.. and I think it will make us talk to each other less and depend on the administrators more.

I think that as long as we keep our eyes open and our mind open, this really shouldn't be an issue. If someone is working on a sheet, don't use the model. If no one is, you can use them. If someone is, but it's been ages since their sheet's ever been touched, that's moving into a grey area... but that is the only grey area I can see in the current way of doing this. By changing something or adding something to a sheet every now and then, if you're still interested in the character, could solve a lot of issues with the grey area. I don't think models are often 'stolen' when a character is currently being worked on, and from my experience, others have no patience for this kind of behavior, either.

But I feel if we don't have a claim then the so called "respect system" we have will still be abused.
I disagree, unless someone agrees to share models I don't think anyone else should use said model. There is a reason why everyone in this world looks different with maybe a few look-a-likes that are eerily similar, and I feel this should be the same on MH

For some the character is formed through the model themselves. In some cases I have picked a model because their look suits my character perfect. Case in hand, dawid here fits Jayden to a t. I mean I get people sometimes take forever to get sheets done, but i mean sometimes it happens that way. You go into too much detail (i do this too much) and your sheet ends up being 20 plus pages in word. And it's taken you forever to make. Work gets in the way, Real life happens.

Does that mean you should have to worry while your probably already stressing about the model you too time to search for (which can sometimes be a task for hours) being gone when stuff settles again?

I disagree with a more lax claims list. I mean if five people have the same face it would just be all blah. i personally dont lie to share a model i know suits my character. but it the model doesnt suit them 100% ask me and sure i'll share. I don't want to log on and be lie wtf they so just snatch my model. Sandbox or not i mean it would be nice for people to say something instead of someone being like "yo...uh your model you had for such and such this person is using" and im like...."....what stop lying let me check my pms) and boom none are there. I know i got a lot of head folk but jeez you know.

I suppose, personally, I feel that a model isn't the most important or defining aspect of a character.  However, I can appreciate that others may disagree. :]
I haven't faced much hardship with the previous system, and perhaps that could explain my feelings toward this whole thing.  I simply worry that having a claim list for WIPs may unnecessarily complicate things. 

I agree with pretty much everything Dylan said. As usual, he has a lot of well-thought out good sense and eloquence.

Maybe there can be a WIP model list where everyone has their own post in it that they can edit as they decide to change models or drop a character or add a new character so that all of the planned models are collected in one place to make it easier for people to scan the list and see who's being used. Like Dylan said, it would be informal and strictly informational. I would be completely for that.

I agree with pretty much everything Dylan said. As usual, he has a lot of well-thought out good sense and eloquence.

This. I was going to attempt to say a lot of the same things, but am glad someone else did so- and more eloquently argued.


I really like the idea of having a list where the models that people are thinking about using can be seen. The search function only goes so far (though I will definitely be adding it to my list of things to use....) and with so many sandboxes and people having different habits as far as how they use them/when they post/etc... it's hard to really tell who's serious about using who and who was just throwing names around. Also, as much as I'd love to- I don't have time to stalk/skim/peruse every sandbox.

I'm not super keen on having explicit claims for WIPs, especially with time limits, because I really do think that that doesn't work with how everyone works on sheets differently and would cause a lot of undue anxiety and potentially lead to people trying to rush sheets out. A thread where there's a list that says 'so and so is interested in using model z for character c' would be beneficial because you can easily see who may be thinking about using a model you were considering and get in contact with them from there. Without stress. And without feeling like it's a race.

I'd like to think that everyone is respectful enough that a basic list like that could work and any model "thefts" are accidental oversights? Having a list would make it easier to avoid such oops! moments?



edit to say: this list may be a bit of an administrative nightmare though. still thinking on that....

edit to say: this list may be a bit of an administrative nightmare though. still thinking on that....

I actually really like Helena's suggestion that we all have posts that we can modify as things change and update as links and stuff change, so the admins won't have to deal with it. Just make sure we include model names in them so a CTRL+F works to search.