Models for WIPs? - discussion thread.

It would be like the Adoptables list we have up already, you know?

i have a small question that may not be important.

say we make this list, and while you're making you post for it, you see that some one who posted before has one of the models on your list, then what?

Then I think it becomes a personal thing to work out with the other person, but! I have a couple things to say.

I am so not into a full blown reserve system just because I'm one of those people that takes awhile with WIPs. I have quite a few sorted characters already and other things to do, ie, graphics and such, college applications, yadda yadda.

The courtesy system worked pretty well and everyone knew not to step on people's toes until recently, so I do not think a couple of incidents should be the deciding factors with this and whether established members have to drastically change the way we're using models because of this. I think a 3-month rule is reasonable and I actually agree completely that this could be set up, unless it's worked out with the other person that it's okay to use the model or share, just like we've always done before.

Going back to the relaxed model system in which there's absolutely sharing also really rubs me the wrong way. I think if you want to share with someone, you should have to talk to the person that has them claimed -- not just use them because it's "okay". Using them without the other member who has the claim rights' permission would be rude and it would basically invalidate the model claim system altogether, so I'm glad we have that rule now. If I had a character with a popular model in use and someone wanted to use him/her that was in the same area, same age group, and same interests, that would just not be okay with me because I want that model for my character for a reason.

Otherwise, I agree with what Dylan and Helena have said.

i have a small question that may not be important.

say we make this list, and while you're making you post for it, you see that some one who posted before has one of the models on your list, then what?

I'd say the response to that would be to PM that driver and talk about it. It would kind of be a first-come-first-serve sort of thing, though. I mean, it's for informational purposes only, so you're aware of their intentions. While we're first establishing it, that might come up. Then it can be between those two drivers. After that, though, say you're looking for a model and you check the list and you're fine and you decide to use that model. Before you put them in your post, though, someone else puts it in their post (so you two have found the model about the same time), then you can discuss with them the same way you'd handle that situation now. The only difference is that you now know where to look to see if someone is intending to use a model.

From experience, when someone starts a sheet with a model already in use or being used for a WIP, someone will usually contact the second person - either the driver of the character/wip or someone else. In the rare chances where someone finds a model around the same time, I imagine it would continue on in that same way. What I'm hoping the list would avoid is a situation where drivers can rely on what the rules say rather than talk something out. I think the moment we move away from acting in accordance with the feelings of others, we'll lose sight of the fact that this is a fun place where we come to have a good time and make friends.

I agree with a casual list/respect system/no official timed claim.

So long as you know someone is actively working on a character and have already chosen that model, you should respect them not because the rules say so but because you'd want the other driver to act in the same way. Some people like to take a while on their WIPs and I don't think putting a time limit on a claim is a good idea.

I actually really like Helena's suggestion that we all have posts that we can modify as things change and update as links and stuff change, so the admins won't have to deal with it. Just make sure we include model names in them so a CTRL+F works to search.

I like this idea too, don't get me wrong.
However...it's still basically a model claim.
What is going to be able to negate the drama that would come if a person uses a model on that list without caring about someone claiming them?

In all honesty, I don't care what happens just as long as due consideration is given and if you want to use a model that some one has said "hey, i'm going to use them" and contact them about it. What ever happens after that is between the drivers, but I think that it needs to be done.


I think I'm still a tad bitter about Murphy so i'm backing out of this subject. Someone just pm me when a decision is made.

I didn't read a lot of these because I have to leave for the weekend soon, but I figured I'd just throw my two cents in here since this issue has affected me personally.

1. As a new member, if I had simply seen even a list of face claims people were working on (maybe parallel to a face claim list, I dunno) while I was doing my model search, rather than having to go through every single sandbox to hope that I didn't miss the one that I wanted to use because it's on the tenth page of your sandbox amid discussion about fairies and plot ideas and what-have-you, I would not use that face. Even if it says in big bold letters "THIS IS NOT A CLAIM". Because I would personally like to avoid that conflict. I wouldn't have to get pissed off and throw chairs at the walls of my house. I mean, even if there's no reserve system, as a new player getting that for reference, I would get the respect system, rather than having to plan a character out in my head, be excited as shit because it's a great face and it's not on the face claim list, and be disappointed when someone shows up and stakes an unwritten claim over said face. That's annoying.
2. If you're working on eight different WIPs and you have face claims on there for all of them, I'm judging you. Literally. Like, I understand you're "working" on all of them, but come on. You're face hoarding, especially when you expect me to automatically give them up to you when you might not finish them for two years.
3. I personally had half a mind to take all models off of my wip list, simply because i wouldn't want someone else to think that they didn't have the opportunity to challenge me on a face claim. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure it eventually will. And I'm sure I'll let them have them.
4. I don't see how it could be a disrespect to someone to take their face claims because, in all honesty, taking claim over a face you're not finished with is a disrespect on the face claim rule which specifically says "2. Do not post a claim if you are not sorted.". Don't tell me that I'm stepping on your toes and don't tell me I'm disrespecting you because there is no rule that I can't give you friendly competition.
5. I personally think that taking three nights to write up a sheet (I'm a fast writer, personally) does not make them of lesser quality of someone who takes a year. You could take fourty years and you'll probably still get pended for something. It's never going to be perfect.
6. If we allow the claim of one face, who says that if someone takes another one of the eight faces you're working on, you won't hate them and threaten to tell everyone you know about it. Or talk shit about them to everyone you can. I'm not sure.
7. I don't see what the big obsession with getting one face is. There's someone else out there that will fit the description of your character, even if you're completely done with the sheet, and there's someone out there just as pretty.

All of this being said, I think that what I would suggest would be a list for reference. And not harassing someone if they take it anyway. I personally wouldn't because I know what the outlined rules are, and I abide by them. That being said, as I've said before, if it's obvious to me that someone is working on that face that I can reference while looking for a face, there would be no conflict. With this system (the "courtesy" one), however, the only drama that can be sparked is a result of someone getting possessive over a face they have no legitimate claim over. And by legitimate, I mean by rule somewhere.

EDIT: I also wanted to point out that this issue is one that may affect mostly (if not only) new drivers. Older ones have the time and know-how to go through everyone's sandbox (or know them by memory after having previously looked) to make sure their face isn't already being worked on. As many of you haven't been "new"for quite some time, you might not remember how it felt.

1. That's what the search feature on the board is for. It's not that hard to find.
2. That's fine, but some of us work slowly on our sheets and we like to have the time to think them out thoroughly. I understand that's not your style and you write your sheets quickly, but I want to be sure I have the muse for the character and that I've done them right before I sort them.
3. That kind of behavior actually makes it harder for the rest of us to know who's being worked on and who isn't. Like you said in point 1, we prefer not to get excited over a model if someone else wants to use one. If you want to use a model, by all means go ahead and put them in, and it'll make everyone's life easier.
4. No one has posted a claim on the model list, but wouldn't you prefer to avoid confrontation in the first place and respect that someone else might have a brilliant idea that they've been working on? No competition where two people are racing to finish sheets or really want to use a model for a character is going to be "friendly."
5. I disagree with this, as I've had several sheets go through without getting pended for something. It's not about the quality of the sheet sometimes. You only have two or so characters; some of us have ten, have very active lives in RL, and really have to think about whether we can handle another, or what is the best way to play them.
6. I'm on board with that, which is why in general I'm not crazy about the whole formal claim thing.
7. Some people have characters that spring up based on the model they're using. I am personally someone who makes the idea first and then looks for a good model to fit, but there are lots of drivers who do it the other way around. It's not anyone's place to disrespect how people get inspiration or creativity.

Which is why we've already been suggesting the reference list. And if we have to set down rules for everything and we can't expect to have a little respect between drivers on this site, well, that's how you end up with dystopian societies instead of communities where everyone can trust each other to behave according to respect and what's right.

I love the idea of doing it like the Adopt A Character thread. That'll make things SO much easier to find a model that is or isn't being used by someone WIP.

I disagree this is a recent thing, there are many times that people have used a model without contacting said driver about using said model if it's in their sandbox. It's happen to me and it's happened to others. The respect system isn't really used and new members aren't even aware of this until someone brings it to their attention. Which is why I feel a list like Helena suggested would work well.

As to point one Helena, not every new member is going to understand about the search bar.

1. That's what the search feature on the board is for. It's not that hard to find.
2. That's fine, but some of us work slowly on our sheets and we like to have the time to think them out thoroughly. I understand that's not your style and you write your sheets quickly, but I want to be sure I have the muse for the character and that I've done them right before I sort them.
3. That kind of behavior actually makes it harder for the rest of us to know who's being worked on and who isn't. Like you said in point 1, we prefer not to get excited over a model if someone else wants to use one. If you want to use a model, by all means go ahead and put them in, and it'll make everyone's life easier.
4. No one has posted a claim on the model list, but wouldn't you prefer to avoid confrontation in the first place and respect that someone else might have a brilliant idea that they've been working on? No competition where two people are racing to finish sheets or really want to use a model for a character is going to be "friendly."
5. I disagree with this, as I've had several sheets go through without getting pended for something. It's not about the quality of the sheet sometimes. You only have two or so characters; some of us have ten, have very active lives in RL, and really have to think about whether we can handle another, or what is the best way to play them.
6. I'm on board with that, which is why in general I'm not crazy about the whole formal claim thing.
7. Some people have characters that spring up based on the model they're using. I am personally someone who makes the idea first and then looks for a good model to fit, but there are lots of drivers who do it the other way around. It's not anyone's place to disrespect how people get inspiration or creativity.

Which is why we've already been suggesting the reference list. And if we have to set down rules for everything and we can't expect to have a little respect between drivers on this site, well, that's how you end up with dystopian societies instead of communities where everyone can trust each other to behave according to respect and what's right.

I was about to write something similar to this haha

But im one of those few who are inspired by the model half the time instead the idea. Jayden had a model in which didnt fit i had no muse as soon as i saw his current model i had muse for days for him because he was the perfect piece of inspiration

As to point one Helena, not every new member is going to understand about the search bar.

It's on the navigation bar at the top of MH...surely no one joins a site without figuring out what's on the menu? Regardless, if it's that difficult to find it could be put in one of the guides (say in the rules on top of the model list). But, if we're making a new list like the Adopt a Character list, the point is moot anyway

Honestly I never thought of looking in the search bar for a model. Not till you brought it up. We can't assume everyone esp new members will think of using it. Which is why I disagree with that part.

1. That's what the search feature on the board is for. It's not that hard to find.
2. That's fine, but some of us work slowly on our sheets and we like to have the time to think them out thoroughly. I understand that's not your style and you write your sheets quickly, but I want to be sure I have the muse for the character and that I've done them right before I sort them.
3. That kind of behavior actually makes it harder for the rest of us to know who's being worked on and who isn't. Like you said in point 1, we prefer not to get excited over a model if someone else wants to use one. If you want to use a model, by all means go ahead and put them in, and it'll make everyone's life easier.
4. No one has posted a claim on the model list, but wouldn't you prefer to avoid confrontation in the first place and respect that someone else might have a brilliant idea that they've been working on? No competition where two people are racing to finish sheets or really want to use a model for a character is going to be "friendly."
5. I disagree with this, as I've had several sheets go through without getting pended for something. It's not about the quality of the sheet sometimes. You only have two or so characters; some of us have ten, have very active lives in RL, and really have to think about whether we can handle another, or what is the best way to play them.
6. I'm on board with that, which is why in general I'm not crazy about the whole formal claim thing.
7. Some people have characters that spring up based on the model they're using. I am personally someone who makes the idea first and then looks for a good model to fit, but there are lots of drivers who do it the other way around. It's not anyone's place to disrespect how people get inspiration or creativity.

Which is why we've already been suggesting the reference list. And if we have to set down rules for everything and we can't expect to have a little respect between drivers on this site, well, that's how you end up with dystopian societies instead of communities where everyone can trust each other to behave according to respect and what's right.

Like I said, I hadn't read everyone's takes and I didn't read about any other lists. I'm sorry for having similar/varying opinions as everyone else. They're simply my own based on my own experience, and that's all I can say for them

1. Right just going to go ahead and repeat the fact that it's harder for new drivers. And impossible if you don't have a name for that face on there along with it. I apologize for not first understanding the site and being able to successfully use the search bar in my first couple of days. Often times, search bars on site's I've been on have been horribly unhelpful.

2. Doesn't mean that those who are fast writers don't do it right.

3. Exactly my point. I don't think it's as much about the face as it is about the character behind them. A face is merely the cover of the book. I put my faces back on there only because it seems to be unpopular to leave them off, and because people like to have the face reference. However, I would encourage someone to challenge it. If it wasn't allowed to be challenged, there'd be a rule against it, wouldn't there? Instead there's just the threat of harassment.

4. There shouldn't be any confrontation. At all. Everyone's following the rules.

5. I've only sent through 2 sheets so perhaps I'm just speculating. I'm sorry for assuming you've been pended.

6. I also don't agree with the formal claim. I'm just much less on board with the idea of going around rules.

7. I'm typically in between, one or the other. In the case of the conflict I personally had, it came half and half. I had a general idea, looked for a face, and the face finished it off. However, when the conflict arose, I ended up just switching the face because I was so fed up with the conflict and the thought that this might come back to haunt me. I completely finished a sheet and a description, but I also got over it. I couldn't expect the same of everyone else, thought.

However, it's important to note that there are two sides to every story. It's just too bad that both sides can't always be shown, in fear of conflict or repercussion. I would suggest, however, that anyone who thinks that I have been wrong should ask me about it privately rather than listen to the one sided opinions of someone else.

And perhaps I'm not well acquainted enough for the site to play here then? Being here for four years I assume you definitely are. I've been here for a week. I'm sorry for not catching on as quickly as some would like.

I didn't even know how the search bar worked until yesterday and I've been on here a long long time.

I didn't even know how the search bar worked until yesterday and I've been on here a long long time.

Thank you! Now I don't feel quite so ignorant.