Models for WIPs? - discussion thread.

Hi folks,

I've noticed recently that we've had a couple of cases of folks wanting to use the same model for a character, and we were wondering in admin if we should instigate some sort of system whereby you could reserve a model for a WIP.

We've already discussed this a bit in admin and the idea we came up with was, each driver is allowed to reserve one model at a time, for one month. After that time, if someone else wants to use the model, they can.

What do you all think about this? Are you happy with just taking pot luck for WIPs and trusting to the unspoken system we seem to have now, or would this be useful?

[carys]~ Carys <333

I think we should have that sort of systems yes ^^

It's always terrifying making chars then wondering if another wants to use it too xD

Mike approves c:

I like it ^^

I like this hahah i've had to change a few faces in the past this will be nice

no nervousness of having to wonder if your model will be sporting a different name so to speak lol

To be completely honest, I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's probably a good idea. I sort of liked the unofficial system of just basing it on courtesy and working it out between drivers if someone wants to use someone that another driver had planned for a character, and I'm a little worried that the whole one month thing will put lots of pressure on people to crank WIPs out just so they can have the model (MH drivers are like impulse buyers when it comes to making characters because we see a pretty model ) and don't have to worry about anyone lurking in the wings to pounce on the person if they're not done in time. This may be because I tend to take several months on each WIP (maybe over a year sometimes >>), personally. But this system will probably be fairer and avoid dispute so we should probably go for it, yes.

No, this is great and exactly why we wanted to talk to you folks about it!

I personally don't see a reserved list as replacing the current courtesy system we have now - if someone has 6 WIPs, I don't think it would be fair to allow them to claim six models - and I also don't like the idea of renewing the claim. It was simply if someone has a character that *really* suits that model (or vice versa) and they want to be absolutely sure that a new member doesn't come in and innocently claim that face before they finish the WIP.

I never understood the idea of actually wanting a model until a couple of weeks back when the 12th Doctor was announced. Instantly I knew I HAD to have a char that used Peter Capaldi, and I was terrified in case someone beat me to it! Luckily, the character I already had in mind was a professor, so I could use the new short sheet, but in that case, I'd have been glad to have a reserve list so i knew I had a little breathing space, so to speak.

I definitely don't think this should replace the courtesy system and I don't think we should start snatching models out from each others' noses, it was just to try and avoid "someone who had almost finished a sheet suddenly having to find a new model" situations.

Tbh, I think we really need to be careful about how we set this system up, if we do one at all.

I think we have a hard enough time managing models who are claimed by sorted characters. We already have issues with characters who go inactive and still have a model claim even though they aren't posting or logging in. I think it could be even worse with WIPs. There are some cases when WIPs sit in boxes for three years and 'claim' a model. So even if we did have a system for xx amount of time to claim a model, who says that timeframe will work. Some drivers write sheets in a day, some it takes a few months.

I do kind of like the idea of not being able to claim someone until you have 1/2 or 3/4 of the sheet complete. That might be something to look in to.

Andd I hate to bring up issues or just say no to things without coming up with alternate solutions or ideas, but  I don't have any right now xD I'll think on it though haha Especially cause models is one of my favorite things about creating new characters >> lols

I'd really like to see if maybe we could implement a rule that you had to do a board-wide search of a model's name before you decided to go all gung-ho and write up an entire sheet because you just saw this movie or something >> Or at least a suggestion in the model list for people to think about. It surprises me how many people don't actually do this, instead just going off of whether they've seen a sandbox recently with the person in it (I actually started doing this after I forgot about one of Amy's WIPs using the same as someone I wanted to use). If this was a thing and everyone was sure to list the name and not just the picture in the sandbox, the courtesy system might go a lot smoother, because people wouldn't start creating or writing whole sheets before finding out someone else wanted to use them--they'd know right off the bat as soon as they got the idea.

I feel like in situations like the one rusty just mentioned about WIPs that sit around forever the whole thing could be resolved through a quick "Hey, you still gonna use this person, how long is it going to take," whatever PM that got the "hoarding" driver thinking about whether it's really fair for them to be holding on to that model still. Especially because most of us have more than one WIP at once, if we can only claim one and only for a month then we have to start worrying about which one we really really want and which one to leave to the potluck, which one we can or will finish first, will we have enough personal RL time to get that WIP done in time, etc. etc. And then the whole hurry up thing sometimes rushes people into making characters that don't end up being active anyways and the driver having second thoughts (leading to the same thing, just with actual characters instead of WIPs and other drivers being annoyed that they're claimed when the character isn't really played), or rushes people into making more characters than they really have time for... Again, I'm still in favor of something of a system just for fairness, but it also makes me a little nervous is all

I think that the board wide search thing is good, I do it myself ^^

also, when Jenny made Yelena, she wanted to use Holland. I was planning on making a Holland char but my muse left. A simple PM solved it right up and so it's pretty easy and I'm sure people would be willing to work things out c:

I like the whole PM idea, that can resolve so many issues about models. I myself have had models in my sandbox and taken a bit longer on a sheet (such as vance) and then someone else sorted a character with that model. I got a bit upset, but luckily we worked out a deal to share the model.

What if we had the reserve system up, with only one reserve model per driver at a time and the date next to it with no time limit? As well as a link to that sandbox page where the sheet is located. If for example A is using Chris Pine, but B wanted to use Chris Pine as well and saw that the model had been claim over 6 months ago but the sheet hasn't been touched or barely has anything in it, then B can PM A asking if they still had plans on using that model. Most likely, like Mike suggested, the muse is gone and A would willingly give up the model to B.

So, this is my suggestion.
Yes, people claim models in their sandboxes, and its completely unfair to have a huge load of characters that are in progress and their models are being used.
However, I've been in the situation where I've had a model above a sheet that was half done and my work schedule changed (from 20-= to 50 hours) and not only was that model taken and used on a newly sorted character, I didn't even receive any notification from the driver. And yes, I understand my circumstances played a part in that, but I would have liked to have received some notification instead of dumping the whole sheet totally because I'd have to find a similar model that fit because my choice was gone.

so, saying that.
I think there should be a model reserve list with some limits.
1) No more than two models per driver.
2) Maybe a 2 month hold on that model
3) A limited amount of renewals on that hold (because yes, life does happen)
and once your renewals have been exhausted, the model is up for grabs until you sort and officially claim.

because siriusly, the courtesy system doesn't work, and it'd be a good idea to have an actual list.

I like the idea of only being able to reserve one wip model at a time.

I agree that the courtesy system doesn't work and in fact is not all that courteous >>



And I think 2 months is too long

i agree with everything helena and rusty have said.

i like the idea of a system. like you said, carys, if you feel like you must have a certain model and are extremely paranoid about someone taking them, it allows you to breathe a bit. aaaand, it'd be nice to have a list of models being used for wips. however, most of us have multiple wips and being able to claim only one face doesn't really prevent a situation where two people want to use the same model. it just helps to lessen the amount of times it happens, which is definitely still a good thing.

but what if someone already has a claimed face on the list, and ends up with another wip with the same model as another person's (who also has a reserved model) wip. like rusty, i always use the search tool when i want to use a model but not everyone states the name of the model they want to use for a wip in their box. working it out via pm should do the trick, but not everyone's going to be willing to share or give up the model they're using that easily. :\

and what if someone claims a model for a wip but your character is already sorted and you want to use that model?

1) No more than two models per driver.
2) Maybe a 2 month hold on that model
3) A limited amount of renewals on that hold (because yes, life does happen)
and once your renewals have been exhausted, the model is up for grabs until you sort and officially claim.

because siriusly, the courtesy system doesn't work, and it'd be a good idea to have an actual list.

this is a good idea, too. but two months is kind of long, especially if someone claims the model you planned to use before you and you finish the sheet right away while they've barely touched theirs. for example, dev's sheet is almost done and if the system was put in place tonight and someone claimed her model before i could, and had just started their character's sheet, i wouldn't be happy.

Respectfully, I feel that if we move too much against courtesy, what there is will fall apart. People's opinions in this discussion are being driven by their own personal experiences with it, and it seems to have mixed reviews--both people who have had wonderful experiences of respect and courtesy and people who have their ire up because of people who haven't been courteous. There are a lot of problems that could be solved with a ground rule of listing WIP models in sandbox posts, doing a board-wide search before your heart is set on a model and also, if you find a model that's been sitting there for months, to PM the driver and work it out. Most of the problems resort from people not talking to previous drivers about that and working out a solution.

But if this system is implemented, I like Toya's model of it. It gives a little more freedom to those of us who honestly don't have a lot of time on our hands and don't want to be impulse buyers but still have a number of WIPs at a time, and gives an amount of fairness to remove claims by people who leave sheets sitting for six months. I also want to see a system that requires some amount of completion on the sheet before claims--however, I'm not sure how that would be implemented since we all work on sheets in different orders. Maybe like, two out of Personality, Appearance, and History have to be completed before a claim can be made? To account for the fact that people work in different orders?

Mickie, your last bit is true, but someone could write up a really fast sheet all in one night and take her model just the same. It's not really any different from the current model claim we have. Honestly, as someone who takes a lot of time perfecting a sheet, I'm a wary of month-long things, for the exact reasons I've stated.

In my head this reserve system would logically be as you are really nearing the end of your sheet.  Perhaps I am being too logical on this matter? 

I would see this as such. 
1- you post your sheet in your sandbox and you do say who you want to use as a modle (IE I have Mixail in my box using Joe Magallino)
2- you get working on them, and things are going really well, and you are about 90% sure you are going to finish pretty quickly (here is where i fail at Mixail, but lets just pretend)
3- you post to reserve the model for 1 month as you are pretty sure that will be the time frame where you can finish this
4a) you finish and claim and no big deal
4b) you fail to finish, and the model reserve drops (this doesnt mean you cant get them sorted the next day and be done with it or whatever)
4c) you fail to finish, and then when you are ready to start again, as long as its had at least a month in between or to be generous lets say 2 weeks maybe, you post the claim again and start over from step 3.
4d) you may get a pm checking to see if you will still be using the model after it drops...(here is where I suspect we will have issues as the drivers themselves have to really figure out if they will be finishing this character in a reasonable period of time)

This is not something that is set to replace the respect system that we have had going, but to add to it, and be informative.  If it becomes an abused system I could see it vanishing though.  Really a lot of this system would depend even more on the courtsey and respect you have for your other drivers almost more than the current one does.