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Author Topic:  Stone Elementals + Glass  (Read 4454 times)

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shiloh [ Guest ]
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Stone Elementals + Glass
« on: March 28, 2015, 12:36:58 AM »
Would stone elementals be able to manipulate glass?

My initial thought was no, but upon further research and examination, I'd be willing to make a case for it if necessary?

Yelena Romanova [ Inactive Character ]
1212 Posts  •  17  •  Heterosexual  •  played by Jenny
Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 03:09:16 AM »
to some extent, i'd say yes.
i remember we once had a case where a stone elemental could somehow create/manipulate gemstones.
so with some training it should be possible.

at least in my opinion.

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Camm Erskine [ Daily Prophet ]
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Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 03:37:04 AM »
sorry to pile on but to my knowledge elementals would mean being able to manipulate elements, or all things natural right? so would stone elementals be able to things like gold, silver and metals?

just asking because i have a glass artist in the works, and metal charmers/forgers on the boards, so i'm not sure to what extent it's considered as natural ability for elementals and what isn't?
 

shiloh [ Guest ]
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Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 12:14:33 PM »

to some extent, i'd say yes.
i remember we once had a case where a stone elemental could somehow create/manipulate gemstones.
so with some training it should be possible.

at least in my opinion.


yes, I should mention that I consider this to be an advanced form of magic; well into the later years of training.
gemstones were on my mind too, so that's good to know.

I think I'm going to run with it, unless someone else has huge objections?
I think I can make it plausible.


sorry to pile on but to my knowledge elementals would mean being able to manipulate elements, or all things natural right? so would stone elementals be able to things like gold, silver and metals?

just asking because i have a glass artist in the works, and metal charmers/forgers on the boards, so i'm not sure to what extent it's considered as natural ability for elementals and what isn't?


Pile on all you want! Questions need answerssssss

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Elementals usually do not respond well to metal, will refuse to wear armor or cheap jewelry.


^ That is from the guide, so imo, none of the eles would have control over metal. I think, for whatever reason, it just conflicts with their magic. I believe that advanced stone eles would have full control over all things mineral, though, which includes glass and clay and things of that nature, but not metal.

Also I have a glass artist of sorts in my head too so we should chat or something!

Camm Erskine [ Daily Prophet ]
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Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 12:47:07 PM »

yes, I should mention that I consider this to be an advanced form of magic; well into the later years of training.
gemstones were on my mind too, so that's good to know.

I think I'm going to run with it, unless someone else has huge objections?
I think I can make it plausible.

Pile on all you want! Questions need answerssssss

^ That is from the guide, so imo, none of the eles would have control over metal. I think, for whatever reason, it just conflicts with their magic. I believe that advanced stone eles would have full control over all things mineral, though, which includes glass and clay and things of that nature, but not metal.

Also I have a glass artist of sorts in my head too so we should chat or something!


Now that I think about it, isn't glass just really really hot sand?
maybe not in such crude terms but yeah xD

oh duh-doy! I totally forgot about the metal thing! thanks for reminding me!

kewl we totally should! gimme your skype pls *makes grabby hands* >>
 

Ariana Laurier [ British Ministry ]
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Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 01:10:17 PM »
*throws r&m nerd's two cents in* Glass is SiO2, silicon dioxide. If stone eles have in the past manipulated gemstones, which are like corundum at Al2O3 (aluminum oxide) or diamond (just carbon) then it's safe to say they can generally manipulate minerals which are just substances with a chemical formula with crystalline structure. Rock = combinations of minerals (granite = feldspar + quartz + mica + hornblende) so they'd really have to be able to control individual minerals for it to make any sense (considering some rocks are just one mineral, like limestone and marble are basically just calcite). Of course, that means that the metal thing doesn't make a terrible amount of sense (see corundum, rocks like bauxite which is aluminum ore, etc), but it could maybe just be a negative interaction with pure metallic substances, as those have metals bonded to other atoms?
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shiloh [ Guest ]
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Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 01:20:55 PM »

Now that I think about it, isn't glass just really really hot sand?
maybe not in such crude terms but yeah xD

oh duh-doy! I totally forgot about the metal thing! thanks for reminding me!

kewl we totally should! gimme your skype pls *makes grabby hands* >>


LOLLLLLL

Helena is smarter, read hers xD

also addd me @SPINSYR. I'm not on there right now but I will be soooon ~ !


*throws r&m nerd's two cents in* Glass is SiO2, silicon dioxide. If stone eles have in the past manipulated gemstones, which are like corundum at Al2O3 (aluminum oxide) or diamond (just carbon) then it's safe to say they can generally manipulate minerals which are just substances with a chemical formula with crystalline structure. Rock = combinations of minerals (granite = feldspar + quartz + mica + hornblende) so they'd really have to be able to control individual minerals for it to make any sense (considering some rocks are just one mineral, like limestone and marble are basically just calcite). Of course, that means that the metal thing doesn't make a terrible amount of sense (see corundum, rocks like bauxite which is aluminum ore, etc), but it could maybe just be a negative interaction with pure metallic substances, as those have metals bonded to other atoms?


I am generally following all of this, but also definitely not a science-brained individual.

I think what I'm hinting at is that, yes, I do believe stone elementals would have the ability to manipulate and control individual minerals, but it would be a very advanced and precise form of magic. I, too, was a bit conflicted because of the nature of certain metals, but I think since it's established the metal clashes with Eles in general, it's easier to just say that portion of mineral manipulation just goes haywire. Perhaps, if we're being picky, we could say that certain metals can be manipulated due to their chemical composition, but it's a painful and laborious process that isn't really worth the effort?

Again I'm sorry if I'm like way off base, I'm doing my best! xD

Camm Erskine [ Daily Prophet ]
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Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 01:34:00 PM »

*throws r&m nerd's two cents in* Glass is SiO2, silicon dioxide. If stone eles have in the past manipulated gemstones, which are like corundum at Al2O3 (aluminum oxide) or diamond (just carbon) then it's safe to say they can generally manipulate minerals which are just substances with a chemical formula with crystalline structure. Rock = combinations of minerals (granite = feldspar + quartz + mica + hornblende) so they'd really have to be able to control individual minerals for it to make any sense (considering some rocks are just one mineral, like limestone and marble are basically just calcite). Of course, that means that the metal thing doesn't make a terrible amount of sense (see corundum, rocks like bauxite which is aluminum ore, etc), but it could maybe just be a negative interaction with pure metallic substances, as those have metals bonded to other atoms?


this totally just flew over my head but YEAH SCIENCE MAGIC!
*punches air enthusiastically*
 

Ariana Laurier [ British Ministry ]
1198 Posts  •  20  •  played by Helena
Re: Stone Elementals + Glass
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 02:24:11 PM »
*DISCLAIMER: THIS IS ALL JUST MY INTUITION AND OBVIOUSLY I HAVE NO FINAL SAY ON ANYTHING ELE-RELATED BUT THIS IS HOW I WOULD MAKE IT CONSISTENT WITH SCIENCE* Also sorry for long run-on sentences.

I think it would be advanced in the sense that it would likely take some familiarity with rocks and minerals and their structures and natures in order to have the idea that one was manipulating a single mineral. I sort of imagine that an eleven year old would just produce the rock that he was most familiar with, maybe one that occurred abundantly at home, probably something super generic like quartzite, every time he cast elemental spells; then maybe he'd be able to start differentiating between things like marble and sandstone because they look so different, but wouldn't be able to do this kind of stuff simply because he doesn't understand it. More familiarity with the nature of rocks and minerals would lead to a better understanding of crystal structure and composition that I think would probably allow them to do more with it, but if you didn't know something even existed, or if you didn't quite understand that a rock is made up of x y and z minerals, you'd never even conceive of trying to manipulate it and hence it wouldn't happen.

In my mind I imagine that once an elemental has mastered his element (you know, in the guide it always says after 50 or so they can just say Demin or Hor or Garth or whatever and make whatever they want/manipulate it however they like) they certainly possess the capability to single out and affect/create any mineral because they can affect/create any rock and this follows logically from that, and after that it would just depend on whether the elemental is even aware of this mineral or what this rock is made of, and if they are then they can start doing stuff with it. I bet some Demin acolytes spend a lot of time doing this kind of research. Most of the other elements barring earth are things that are super abundant and don't require this kind of understanding because they're things that humans have a great grasp on. Madin I would assume would also require this kind of understanding--you probably have to have at least some familiarity with a plant to create it (otherwise you could make extinct plants and screw over the ecosystem? idk maybe that is possible), so I imagine more effort goes into understanding/cataloging these things for scholars of those elements.

Of course, that's just kind of my rando thoughts on it. I was also thinking (but here I really am just making stuff up) that there may be constraints like is this substance a naturally abundant or hard to shape or hard to form thing? I imagine just due to hardness (diamond = 10, ruby/sapphire = 9, topaz = 8, something like quartz = 7, glass is at 5.5, going down to something like calcite (which makes up marble) = 3) that a lot of gems would take a lot more energy to manipulate that often crosses the line into not being worth it. It could be sort of a natural constraint against stone eles just making fantastical diamond sculptures in crazy shapes all the time or tons of giant diamond boulders (considering naturally on earth it's very difficult to get the temperature and pressure conditions to form it).

On the metal thing, I want to just say that due to aforementioned conflict with magic, the rule could just be that pure metals or alloys like brass can't be manipulated, while if there are metal ions in other substances the fact that they are somehow..."diluted" because there are other types of atoms in the molecule. That seems clearest to me. Maybe metallic rocks are also just harder to work with in general (think hematite (iron oxide), pyrite (fool's gold, iron sulfide), magnetite (another iron oxide)) due to the high presence of metal.

//idk idk someone else who knows science needs to help me
let your memories grow stronger and stronger 'til they're before your eyes

you'll come back when they call you, no need to say goodbye

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